Chairs: nads (Reading), GOwen33 (Hydra)
Contributors: Fiona (Iceni), Pip (Purple Cobras), geegee (Reading), Γine Gilheany (Gravity), eyan (SYC)
Additional Contributions*: Rachel Dean (Nice Bristols)
Editor: hazard
*These people could not see the live chat
Headlines
Bristol win Nationals, ending Iceni’s impressive 7-year run! Are Bristol’s stronger this year and if so what does EUCF hold?
Iceni come a fairly conclusively second, after a strong WUCC finishing 16th. Did post-WUCC hit harder in the Iceni camp?
Gravity bring two teams to EUCR-W, how was your experience against the UK teams? What was the decision to split into a senior and u24 team?
SYC round off the top four. SYC have had a fairly mixed set of results across the season, beating Nice Bristols at WUCC. What happened at Nationals?
Reading couldn’t quite break into the top four, what was the difference after a strong performance through the season?
Hydra and Purple Cobras push the teams at the top? Has this been the strongest Nationals in a while, especially given the absence of Northern/Scottish teams?
Did the qualifying format and Nationals structure work for Women's, what could make it better?
1. Iceni
2. Nice Bristols
3. Gravity Senior
4. Reading
5. SYC
6. Hydra
7. Purple Cobras
8. Gravity U24s
1. Nice Bristols (EUCF Q)
2. Iceni (EUCF Q)
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3. Gravity Senior
4. SYC
5. Reading
6. Hydra
7. Purple Cobras
8. Gravity U24s
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Nice Bristols beat Iceni, ending an Iceni win streak dating from 2011-2017.
Photo from the Nice Bristols Facebook |
nads
Welcome to the Women's chat! We're going to focus on the Iceni's experience from the weekend first. Iceni have been national champions for the past 7 years, last losing to Leeds in 2010. They had a very strong outing at WUCC finishing 16th but couldn't quite beat Bristol to make it 8 in a row! How was the Nationals experience from the Iceni camp?
Fiona
Firstly, congrats to Bristol for the win - it was thoroughly deserved. I'm sure all the other WUCC teams would agree that it's hard to refocus after a tournament that has essentially been 4 years in the making. But overall I'm really happy with how well we performed as a team, and that we qualified for EUCF. It's given us loads to focus on in the next month.
nads
Do you think it was hard to refocus given that most of the team were still stateside come Regionals?
Fiona
We had a great experience at Regionals. We actually used it as a development weekend, and I think everyone got a lot out of it. In terms of how it affected our rostered team, I honestly don't think it did.
GOwen33
I think Regionals was a tricky one this year, I think pushing for a Regionals tournament for the Women's division is good but I think it perhaps got hit by being only two weeks after worlds and so the whole tournament ended up being a weaker representation of Women's ultimate due to many teams missing players.
Pip
I would agree with Grace on that point, the location (Kent) also didn’t help. Some members of our team were put off by the travel time given lift-sharing was going to prove more difficult as well.
nads
I think it's great to see that Iceni are putting more of a focus on development this year and you provided a great opportunity to develop the Women's community. In terms of your rostered team, do you think there was a difference between WUCC and Nationals? Do you think Iceni has strength and experience on the international circuit in comparison to other UK teams?
Fiona
There were a couple of personnel swaps - players who could make one event and not the other - and we were short a couple of other players, but by and large, the team was the same.
geegee
To echo Nads’s point, our game against Iceni at Regionals was brilliant. Every single player was used and allowed to shine as a development member - super refreshing and enjoyable game.
Fiona
Regarding your second question, all of the UK teams have strength on the international stage. Iceni's doesn't eclipse anyone else's, and you're crazy if you think otherwise. Women's ultimate in the UK has gone from strength to strength: Bristol winning Nats; the domination of Reading in all divisions; the rise of Cobras and Hydra; and the successes of SYC nationally and internationally all prove that. The most important thing for us to do now is find ways of growing the community, and encouraging UKU to help us achieve that.
nads
Very succinctly put, it's definitely the strongest season we've seen in while! Opening it up to the floor, do you think that Bristols are stronger this year, and what might have caused this shift?
Fiona
Our number one goal as captains should be sustainable growth.
GOwen33
In response to to this question, earlier we asked Rachel Dean, captain of Nice Bristols, this question and she had this to say:
Though Nationals wasn't necessarily the focus of our season, it certainly felt a lot more within reach this year. We've been in the final vs Iceni so many times and never managed to do ourselves justice, often putting in really strong performances in the early games and not quite managing to get it together in the final. This year felt different, particularly after our Tour 2 performance, suddenly it felt possible and that’s an exciting feeling! This year certainly feels like the strongest Bristol team I've ever been a part of, and we only had 4 new players. We've always had a load talent, but this year we had the belief and higher expectations of ourselves. Having a non-playing coach (Mark Davin) has made a huge difference, adding creativity to our offence and giving us more license to dream big! Though we had some pretty disappointing results at WUCC and didn't finish as high up as we would have liked, our preparations were so strong, with renewed commitment to trainings and fitness, higher expectations of ourselves and a big investment in building connections across the team - it had a huge impact on our preparation for Nationals.
Though the qualifying tournament seemed pretty disrupted with lots of teams unable to field enough players due to WUCC or distance etc, it does feel like a step in the right direction. The Women's division looked so strong at Nationals- there we no easy games, everyone had won a place, and that can only mean increased competition going forward. Exciting!
Fiona
Bristol has found an offence that plays so well to their players' strengths. And every single person on that team has great basic skills. When you break it down, Ultimate is a game of throwing, catching and running. Everyone on that roster is great on both sides of the disc. Plus, as Deano said, they've had great player retention, which is extremely valuable.
GOwen33
From my own perspective, I think the belief and confidence that Bristols have had this year is massively evident in their play (and results). After WUCC in 2014 they focused a lot on development and this has paid dividends in a large squad where every player is valuable.
nads
Adding to your statement Grace, having been a part of the Nice Bristols team in 2014, I know they've been dedicated in developing younger players and perhaps we're seeing the benefit of this now. If so, it's definitely something that all teams can learn from!
nads
It's been great to see such competition across all Women's team this tour season, WUCC and Nationals. What was the experience like for Gravity?
Pip
We thoroughly enjoyed both our games against Gravity! As a new team we have loved having such a variety of match ups from tournament to tournament. We found Gravity to be incredibly athletic and with a great depth and diversity to their play; being able to bring a development squad of U24s over as well is a huge testament to the depth the have and suggests great things to be seen from them in the future. I would love to see them at some other events in the future!
Γine Gilheany
So as a bit of context: Gravity Women are relatively new (4 years), due to some changes in the club scenes in Ireland / Dublin over last few years there has been a lot of roster changes and movement. Gravity Women is now the only Women's club in Dublin. And because of this our main focus this year was getting as many people playing and committing to train as possible. As we then got 2 bids for EUCR-W (as I'll call it, and that’s another chat I’d say), and due to Rebel taking a mixed bid, we decided to try to field the 2 squads to come over. We would need some pickups for this to definitely happen, and that’s when we decided to split the team into age brackets rather than first and second. Just want to say that this was a deadly opportunity to bring this many people (for different parts of Ireland) over for competition and expand our game time/options (as all irelands this year was 5 teams from 3 clubs).
GOwen33
We, Hydra, loved the opportunity to play against new teams. I love tour but sometimes it can get a bit repetitive when you're playing the same teams in your bracket. Also, agreed with Pip! Would love more opportunities to play against Gravity!
Γine Gilheany
Overall, we really really enjoyed the tournament. Because our focus was to just get people over (rather than any focus at all on results), it gave an opportunity to find spots for lots of players. Also as we were missing many of our more senior/experienced players for various reasons, this and the age split gave good place for people to step up against strong opposition and tight games. Im happy we were able to challenge ye!
Fiona
Any chance of Nationals being hosted in Ireland? Seems unfair to always ask you to trek over.
nads
I'm all for Nationals being hosted in Ireland!
eyan
I'd be keen for an Ireland natties/EUCR-W!
Γine Gilheany
Comment on format: Honestly I have no idea how bids are allocated, and Ireland only just joined UK region two years ago. In Ireland then Men's/Women's qualify the year before for EUCR, but it hasn't been a priority for Women's previously. Now we are experiencing more growth and international success at a club level its on the radar and will be part of goals and season plans. Not sure how UKU and IFDA are going forward with this, or how UK feel about more irish sides taking spots at ‘Nationals’.
- How does uk feel if an Irish team wins ‘UK Nationals?’ (Gravity2019 π )
nads
You heard it here first guys π
GOwen33
This one is aimed at SYC and Gravity - you had two really closely, hard-fought games. What are your thoughts having played each other twice, what did you take away from each game?
eyan
I have personally never played against Gravity, I missed the epic sudden death game at Windmill last(?) year. However, from the tales from the rest of the team, I knew that it was going to be a hard fought, intense and fun game. They always say never play the same team twice in a tournament but I really enjoyed both the games. Sadly I don't think that SYC were able to give you our best showing in the second game but kudos to Gravity, who came out fighting literally minutes after a big game.
Γine Gilheany
It was great getting to play tons of new opposition (I think the only team Gravity have met before is SYC, could be wrong), and it got us really motivated for upcoming national team seasons, as well as the importance of club focus for the development aspect. We found expectations and goals hard to set for games as we really didn't have context for any of ye, so that was brilliant! The only game we had a real goal for was the SYC game, and were gutted to not give them our best shot in group stages, rounded off the tournament well with a fantastic final game.
eyan
Haha, indeed, I look forward to playing Gravity again!
Γine Gilheany
A big take away for us was spirit, found that we actually had a lot of conversations about rules and their interpretations in different points through the weekend, and were tested on the advanced knowledge a lot. Possibly due to closeness of games, playing people you don't know, level of competition/international experience. We have set a goal of improving our fluency with the rules even more for 2019, so thanks for that
nads
Reading played both Gravity teams and we though the spirit was excellent. All calls were settled really well, I just think it goes to show how much spirit can impact the quality and enjoyment of a game, so props for that!
Pip
I think spirit across the whole weekend was great!
eyan
I also thought Spirit was much better this year too. Perhaps because a lot of players had gone to WUCC so were more actively using hand signals and confidently calling things where necessary.
Γine Gilheany
I haven't had a chance to get a proper brief of the Gravity U24 perspective, but they had such a positive atmosphere in the airport on way home. They struggled a bit at the start while they got used to the level of play, this being many of their first club tournament, and were complimenting all the teams willingness to wait, teach and discuss with them. Though results may not have looked as good, I hear they gave a good fight to ye all.
nads
I think you could tell throughout the weekend that the u24's were going from strength to strength, putting more and more points of the board! They had incredible grit, never putting their heads down and some great throws and grabs!
GOwen33
We had a really good game against Gravity U24, the biggest shame in our game was that it was when the rain really hit on Sunday. Would love an opportunity to play them again.
nads
On a slight side note, what are the thoughts of pre-game spirit circles? I think it gives both teams a time to identify issues that have happened in previous games and set expectations for the coming game
GOwen33
As a team that hasn't gone to Euros before, we weren't wholly sure on what the purpose of pre-game spirit circles was. I think would have liked more clarification!
eyan
I'm personally not a fan of pre-game spirit circles.
Pip
We only planned to have one first game with SYC, however we ended up warming up for far away from one another we missed the chance. All other games we mutually agreed not to hold one, mostly on account of not fully understanding their use and the need for whole team involvement.
eyan
I understand the whole notion of identifying issues and setting expectations. However, I think that the other team shouldn't be primed to look out for things to call and just be honest when something has occurred.
Equally, I think that it could excuse teams of certain actions because they've "told the other team in the spirit circles. Hmm I come around very cynical here... I am definitely for Spirit and the ability to vocalise issues. I just feel that teams should be able to focus solely on the game before they play the team.
geegee
The pre-game chats were a little tricky to manoeuvre into the start of the game. In theory I think they’re a good idea if there is a team that is looking to work on their spirit, or even two teams who have previously been hotly contested and poor spirit comes into play, that’s where some initial observations and discussions can be made. When we have a Nationals like we just enjoyed whereby many teams and players have not met before let alone had any clashes, then pre-game spirit chats can be unnecessary.
Γine Gilheany
Pre-game spirit circle was funny. I think i felt the same way as I did the first time i was told about normal spirit circles. I think maybe next time a few themes to comment on might be good. But from our side we did 1/6 full circles, but had 6/6 captain and spirit captain discussions with the flip, which in themselves was maybe enough at this level and i found nice to start the game.
GOwen33
Agree with Both Gee and Eyan there!
nads
I do agree that maybe can be unnecessary, perhaps when two teams know each other well and haven't had any poorly spirited contests, but agree with Γine that it's a nice start to a game especially when they are new competition!
Moving back onto SYC's experience from Nationals...you've had a great season, especially the nail biting game against Nice Bristols at WUCC. Was it difficult to refocus after a successful trip across the pond?
eyan
I definitely think there was a bit of that, along with fatigue - both in terms of the amount of frisbee we've played and the physical, and the team change up. It wasn't that substantial in terms of numbers, but we lost a few players and got a few players back.
A lot of us, in fact the majority of the team, went travelling in the US for quite a while after WUCC. I think one person landed the day before Regionals ... and with only two weekends in between Regionals and Nationals we didn't quite manage to get back into the swing of things at trainings as well.
nads
Reading didn't get to play SYC at Nationals, which was disappointing for us (Reading) at least, we've had great match ups all this season. What do you think would have been the outcome if we had have played? (Reading lost out to a strong Gravity side in the 4-5 cross, which meant we didn't have the opportunity to play SYC)
eyan
We'd have won! π In all honesty I couldn't say. We've had really good games all season, with either team taking it on any given day. It was have been great to have played you at Nationals.
nads
Were Reading missing a few players, and did that make the difference in terms of finishing position?
geegee
It did and it didn’t - we were missing some absolutely key players from our previous Reading teams, however the core squad that played Iceni in the final at Tour 1, that finished 3rd at Tour 2, and competed at Qualifiers was for the most part there. Had we had those extra players, it would’ve given us some extra injury-free legs that we definitely needed by game 6 of the weekend, and brought extra depth that could have made a difference in tighter games. I would love to say that playing a bonus game against SYC for the bants would have been great, but our list of injuries and tired legs kind of overrules the will to play another game unfortunately…
nads
Reading showed some grit during the weekend, pushing Gravity right to the end of the game, hopefully giving Γine a scare and not to mention the very close game against Purple Cobras.
Pip
I thoroughly enjoyed our (Cobras) game vs Reading
nads
What was going on in both camps during the game (Purple Cobras vs Reading)? How did Reading manage to claw a few breaks back and win in sudden death?
GOwen33
It was a tense watch on the sideline!
Pip
Was a great hard fought game on both sides and ending on a sudden death point is always exciting! Reading showed great determination to work very clinically and ultimately take the win.
nads
Purple Cobras have had such a strong season, what was the initial decision to set up the team?
Pip
It was tense to play! Purple Cobras’ whole ethos is based on playing a high level of ultimate with our friends; a group of us have been talking throughout the indoor season about getting a team together for Women's tour and the momentum carried itself as people spoke to their friends
geegee
The Purple Cobras game was crazy, still having flashbacks from it to be honest! The weather was not favourable, but Cobras showed up (quite fresh in comparison to us) and really brought it from the start. We struggled after having already lost our game to go into the top 4 bracket in the wind and rain, and they capitalised on our fatigue very quickly. It really came down to leadership - Bex Palmer put her foot down and decided for us that we wouldn’t lose that game, Cobras showed us it wouldn’t be easy but we got there!
GOwen33
What's always fun about playing Cobras if that the bond they have as friends is evident through their play and how well they gel despite the fact they don't train and have only just started out. I would love to see you all develop that further into next year!
Pip
That game was our first one on Sunday so we were comparatively fresh at the start having had a lie in! It was definitely our best performance of the weekend and a great game to be a part of, despite the wind and rain!
nads
I loved how ballsy Cobras were, they weren't afraid to put great shots deep in the unfavourable conditions. Going back to your comment Pip, I believe that Cobras have been able to give lots of ladies who don't necessarily have club teams an opportunity to play, so credit to you all for that!
Pip
Thank you! It’s definitely the most fun I’ve ever had over a Women's tour season and a lot of that is down to the great bunch of ladies we’ve pulled together. I’m very excited to see what we can do next year, we’re even talking of a possible training/social weekend in the build up!
nads
Onto another team who are developing ladies in the Midlands. How did Hydra feel about tour and their overall performance across the season? You've send two teams to each tour and placed a real focus on commitment and development.
GOwen33
We are pretty happy with our performance this year! We're only in our second year of training as a club, so to finish 6th at our first Nationals feels pretty good! We have been lucky to be able to recruit lots of talented women, largely from the university scene! There is such a gap in the Midlands for a Women's team and we wanted to enable as many women as possible to have the opportunity to train together and play at tour. As we're not a geo-based squad, we aren't able to train as regularly as the other top teams, doing either one day or weekend a month. This has hindered us when playing more well-drilled teams but we're already planning for next season and how we can start to combat this!!
nads
You've retained a great core of players and with your efforts to continue development in the Midlands, I'm sure you'll go from strength to strength. We definitely can't wait to see what you bring to tour and Nationals next year!
eyan
To add to Grace's point about university players, I'd love to see more of those who started at uni to find/join a club afterwards. I think we're slowly getting there but I think we're sadly missing out on a lot of talented women!
nads
I think that's a great shout as a way of continuing to develop Women's ultimate in the UK. We're starting to get there with UKU - find a Women's team but perhaps university teams should try and interact with their local club teams more! Not only will this grow clubs in the UK but mean that women at university get to experience a higher level sooner!
eyan
Exactly!
GOwen33
I would love to see some more teams spring up in the Women's scene next year and not be able to easily predict who is going to take the top spots!
Pip
I think we’re at a very exciting time of growth in Women's ultimate currently, we keep seeing growth in the division year on year and player retention seems to be going very well for most clubs.
Γine Gilheany
In terms of development, we are getting bigger numbers but we are still small. With national team cycle coming up a lot of our Women's leaders' time gets eaten up with running of IFDA, club and national teams, as well as coaching colleges and schools. We are trying to prioritise this, and encourage more leagues and casual tournaments in ireland. But again, takes time as similar people pushing for these too. Any formats and ideas would be great. Gravity this season trained once a week, and then had one longer session a month - this was open to any players from around the country to attend, skills tactics based session, they could bring back to their own clubs who may not have coaching experience. We also organised 3 Higher level skills sessions around the country with different focuses that intermediate-experienced players could attend, with different coaches (from Open and Women's) taking sessions to get variety.
GOwen33
At Hydra, we have women from University of Birmingham, L'boro, University of Nottingham, Nottingham Trent, Manchester, Cardiff, Worcester, Warwick, Leeds (maybe a few more I have forgotten!)
Pip
That’s a very impressive catchment area for Hydra! RED do a great job of getting Leicester ladies out to tournaments and along to sessions too π
GOwen33
Thank you!
nads
Perhaps with input from non-playing coaches, such as Mark Davin at Nice Bristols, we might ease the pressure on the more experience women, allowing continued development of experienced players and growing the scene too!
GOwen33
I think that's a good point!
nads
Finally predictions for Bristols and Iceni at EUCF, and please could you all choose an all-star line?
GOwen33
For Euros predictions: Iceni 3rd, Bristol 2nd
Pip
Iceni 2nd, Bristol 3rd
nads
I think EUCF 2018, will be really close and no doubt both Women's teams will be able to hold their own. I'm going to be bold and say a 1st and 2nd finish, with Bristol just pipping Iceni to finish off an incredible season!
eyan
Hmm Euros will be interesting. Iceni and Bristol top for that's for sure
Γine Gilheany
All stars: I don't really know anyone so this should be fun! - Fiona Mernagh (Gravity), Cliona Doyle (Gravity) and Jane Linehan (Gravity), I think Eyan Sham (SYC), Rachel Naden (Reading), and I think Bex Palmer did some nice things (Reading). I also liked Caitlin Wilson's chicken wing fakes (SYC). Unfortunately I've never played Iceni (shocker), and I've wiped the Bristol game and weather from my memory forever so that’s the reason for non inclusion.
Fiona
Carla Link (Bristol), Eyan Sham (SYC), Jenna Thomson (Iceni), Amelia Kenneth (Reading), Karen Kwok (Iceni), Tessa Bertozzi (SYC), Rachel Turton (SMOG)
nads
Bex Palmer (Reading), Amelia Kenneth (Reading), Tessa Bertozzi (SYC), Jenna Thomson (Iceni), Fiona Kwan (Gravity), Helen Thompson (Purple Cobras) and Grace Owen (Hydra)
GOwen33
Jenna Thomson (Iceni), Bex Palmer (Reading), Kim Owen (Hydra), Georgie Davin (Bristol), Hannah Brew (Iceni), Tessa Bertozzi (SYC), Alice Beeching (Bristol)
eyan
Jenna Thomson (Iceni), Karina Cooper (Iceni), Tessa Bertozzi (SYC), Alice Beeching (Bristol), Avril Hunter (Reading), Kat Rantanen (SYC), Helen Thompson (Purple Cobras)
Pip
Caitlin Wilson (SYC), Nicole Lester (Cobras), Eyan Sham (SYC), Kat Cheng (Hydra), Bex Palmer (Reading), Hannah Brew (Iceni), Helen Thompson (Cobras)
geegee
Ania Godbold (Reading), Vanessa Lowe (Iceni), Alice Beeching (Bristol), Alice Si (SMOG), Jane Linehan (Gravity), Helen Thompson (Purple Cobras), Jo Lewis (HYDRA).
nads
Thank you for a great discussion, that's a wrap on Nationals for this year. Excited to see all the development that happens over the off season, see you all on pitch soon!
Γine Gilheany
Thanks for convo, very interesting chats and methods. Pleasure to be involved. I enjoyed the questions πππ
