Chair/Editor: Alun P
Contributors: Rush (Scotland), hazard (Oxford), Slender (Sheffield), Axel (UCL, ex-Glasgow), geegee (Birmingham)
Alun P
For the final time this autumn, welcome back to another TCLF tournament review. This time, we look over the best tournament of the year, in What Went Down at UXIN Div 1.
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| Strathclyde kept the UXIN title in the same city for a third year running Photo - University of Strathclyde Ultimate: Dark Horses |
Rush
They just seemed to have an answer for everything and anything that people throw at them... throw the high ones, they poach, play short and they’ll play under, throw a zone and they’ll decimate it... a very well rounded team
hazard
Strathclyde looked fairly similar to last year, and I mean nothing but positive things by that. They picked up Zsófi Marozsák from Glasgow, and Andrew Warnock and Cameron Mackie had the same solid connections they always do.
Slender
The biggest compliment I can pay them is I barely watched them until the final as whenever I looked over they were winning convincingly.
hazard
Quite nice team-based play as well. Mackie was always going to be a main focus, but every player seemed fairly well used to some extent.
I’ll also agree with Slender that Strath looked good throughout. Honestly, from the first couple games you could tell a UCL vs Strath final was on the cards, if the schedule permitted.
Rush
That final though... we saw some great stuff from Strath, they really adapted to UCL’s style of play and handled their USA players very well
Slender
Yeah those two teams were clearly the standout teams there
hazard
Especially once we saw some of the other big names either hadn’t brought a full strength squad or didn’t seem to quite be clicking.
Alun P
On that topic, while Strathclyde were strong, the other usually dominant Scottish teams disappeared, with all four ending in the bottom bracket. What went on with that?
hazard
They all chumped hard. Ultimate is now dead in Scotland.
Long live the new regime
Rush
Exams... glorious exams... unfortunately our best players from Scotland are towards their final years or deep in PhDs so they have to focus on that. The drive down to Essex was not worth the time that could have been wasted put into work. Unfortunately we all came to university to get a degree not play frisbee... if only we could get a first in frisbee...
Glasgow brought their second team from regionals, st Andrews brought a fresher team, Edinburgh are not the same force that they once were.. it’s just not the same at the moment
hazard
I’m actually going to pull you up on that one Rush. Edinburgh still had some very good players this weekend - Hannah Rogers and Lochlan Fisher being joined by Gabe Schechter. It felt to me they just had a bad tournament, rather than any big loss in inherent quality.
Some loss, don’t get me wrong. But not reflecting the drop they took.
Rush
I would suggest that Edinburgh are not quite as good as they used to be - they have good split gender teams. We just can’t make them glue together for mixed
hazard
Rounding off Scotland - Aberdeen were only really missing Ellie Taylor. It took them one game to glue, and unfortunately that made the difference. They had a hot match against Loughborough - including someone getting a wind-up point-block on a hammer.
Slender
Unfortunately, this also now validates any southern team not travelling to UXON in March.
Unfortunately, this also now validates any southern team not travelling to UXON in March.
Rush
Slender if you want to play Div 2 be my guest, the hot talent will all be playing in St. Andrews for UXON
hazard
Other teams were hurt too though - GB trials were this weekend. Manchester missed Steve Dixon, we (Oxford) missed Joyce Kwok.
Slender
We'll see Rush....
Axel
I think Rush is being polite. Glasgow decided that hardcourt and the drive down to play half of your games against chumps isn’t worth it. St. Andrews I’m not sure about. Edinburgh did just genuinely chump it by the looks of it. And Aberdeen were always likely to have overperformed at regionals but will probably be disappointed with their finishing position.
I don’t think that performance validates English teams not going up. When did they last win a mixed tournament and have grounds to stand on. Also the surface argument doesn’t carry well. If it was 3G I’m sure the teams would’ve come down.
Rush
^^^this is what I meant but I need Axel to be brutal about it
Alun P
Moving swiftly on with the appearance of Axel… Runners up, after failing to make Div 1 last year, UCL blew through the field fairly comfortably. What changed?
Axel
We had a few pick ups... We had a wild (and unmentioned by TSG) Russell Howd who famously played for Truck Stop and the DC Breeze in some little league across the pond. CJ Colicchio came to us after we messaged his youtube site for info about a pro deal. We had a very strong team otherwise as well. Alicia Tan and myself from the U24 cycle just gone and a few people who should make the squads this time round.
The only caveat is that we had only played iso for 3 weeks...
Alun P
Other youtube channels are available
Axel
Overall though we made less unforced errors than other teams and played some (maybe too?) physical defence for this division.
Alun P
This year saw a real mix of regions in the top bracket, with the first five finishers all representing different regions. Are things evening up across the country?
Rush
Not a chance... Scotland could still dominate England in a 5v5 of your best vs our best
But then we do need to stop thinking of this as us vs you... you do have Axel now which might even things up.
Slender
Also by my count half the teams in the top 8 this year were in the top 8 last year.
hazard
Bath, Birmingham and Loughborough have been consistently high year on year. Bath in particular have been the stand out team for their region for the past few years.
Slender
Luff have been carrying the York and East region at nationals in a similar vein to Bath as well.
hazard
For the other southern teams, it’s mostly been the Men letting the side down in mixed. UCL getting two really good men finally solved that - their women have been good for years.
Kings, Bangor and Newcastle are the top 8 teams that stand out to me. While they all have some good players, they seemed to play together very well as a unit, without necessarily having lots of top club players. They are a story worth highlighting, for me.
Axel
Bath do come from an insanely weak region though^^^
Bangor and Kings were both lucky with the draw in that Glasgow defaulted the pool. If they had been there KCL would’ve played luff in a pre-quarter and lost. Bangor wouldn’t have gone as far. They looked like a sloppy team from the start and then got tired which made them worse. Both lucky to be in the top 8.
Luff have a nice vert tbh, everyone else’s vert is dodgy af
Slender
Having played them both, I can say if Glasgow sent a full strength team they beat them both comfortably.
....but they didn't so....
Alun P
Loughborough's vert/built in iso combo is one of my favourite plays
hazard
Loughborough’s vert was very nice actually, a good point. Their connections on pitch were very good too - which is what made that formation work.
Axel
Newcastle I agree with Harry on. They played well together without having stand out stars.
Slender
Luff don't seem able to adapt when it doesn't work though, from what I saw against UCL.
Axel
Agreed on the Glasgow comment. KCL and Bangor could only play what’s in front of them and did so well
Luffs iso wasn’t bad, UCL’s personnel was just strong enough to take them down.
Luff were a top 4 team based on how they played. Just got the wrong draw
Slender
It might just be me watching from the stands but they just kept throwing the same throw that wasn't working.
Axel
Might look like that but maybe credit the defence to Force a dodgy break on stall 7 ;)
Slender
Now you're definitely overplaying how forced some of the stuff was
Axel
Hehe maybe. They also had to chase the game of course...
hazard
Loughborough might be one of the highest teams without really having any eternal postgrads. Them and Bath do very good at building up players from scratch
Slender
(For the record I'm not trying to crap on luff, I agree they're around the level of a top 4 team, that's just maybe what’s stopping them being a top 2 team).
Axel
Slender, was it you guys (Sheffield) who played lots of split and send. #noice
Slender
Yeah, a 3-2 that's either side or split
hazard
With Helen Thompson on whichever side you actually want the disc
Slender
didn't do as much of the sending as we'd like though
Alun P
Spirit across the weekend has been noted as feeling good during games, even if this wasn't reflected in all scores. Anyone have any standout good or bad experiences?
Axel
I wouldn't call them standout but I would say that we had a game against Oxford that went really well in terms of discussions, time limits and fairness. Strath final was also awesome for a final where things could go south fast. Similar with Luff, we had a few calls at the start that went on a bit, but were resolved fairly, and then everyone adjusted and it was great. I'm sure people will give us some feedback (or I hope so) but we had mainly really good experiences, with the only downside being some individual's rules knowledge but that’s bound to happen at uni I guess?
I also really enjoyed some friends on pitch and the gantries in general giving some banter. I always thought it's been missing and even though it is sometimes misconstrued I love it. Though that may not be everyone's opinion.
hazard
We gave Exeter a 4 for positive attitude. We did it by going through the spirit category recommendation by WFDF, and voting as a team. Thoroughly deserved.
I will also say I think teams tended to play fairly spirited regardless of if they were up or down. As Alun hinted, all the games certainly felt enjoyable this weekend.
Axel
`I really agree with that point actually
Alun P
Scores did not necessarily match those good feelings though. I know many contributors have strong opinions on spirit scoring at uni level, care to air them?
hazard
I would actually really like to film a mock spirit-marking in a team. It’s one of the few things that teams don’t do publicly (for obvious reasons), and so unless you move between teams you don’t really have any sense of how teams do it.
Because of that, it’s very understandable that different teams seem to produce different results.
Axel
I don't think it’s very consistent and people may place too much emphasis on how they feel. I would wager that you tend to see lower marks awarded after a loss, and higher ones after a win.
hazard
One thing we tend to do as a team is mark ourselves on each spirit category at the end of each day as well. I think it’s a good way to be self-reflective of how you are perceived.
Axel
I also think it's funny how at regionals second teams will win spirit. Even though their rules knowledge is almost guaranteed to be worse than most experienced first teams etc...
hazard
Final thing - don’t have an ego when doing spirit. Don’t hold too strongly to one perspective if the rest of the team has a different one. And don’t be afraid to re-check the wording for the spirit categories. At Worlds, there were still times in close decisions where we had to re-read the difference between scores in order to make our choice, and all of us had been playing for a number of years. It’s ok to take your time - teams will take the opinion you give seriously.
Axel
My main thing is always not to hold one call or event in mind, especially if it is just one person who did something. Spirit should reflect the whole team and not what one person did. Obviously if it is outrageous then fair enough, but even for the 1s and 3s I think it says that there should be a few instances of a good or bad thing occurring.
ALSO LEARN THE RULES
wait wut
hazard
I try to keep it as a rule to leave a comment explaining each 1/3. This might be a bit much for some, but I don’t think it’s too much effort to give people positive/negative feedback to really help them.
Alun P
There was also some specific highlighting of issues with blade pulls in the spirit comments, which is always at divisive issue. Do we have any thoughts on them?
andrew
Blade pulls are an interesting one. They aren’t against the rules but we used to throw them at training and had to stop due to the high number of discs that were getting warped or otherwise damaged. I think anything with a high chance of damaging the equipment is probably against the spirit of the rules, even if there’s nothing specific about it, like spiking a disc on its side. Reasonable minds can disagree, though!
geegee
Yeah with blade pulls, it’s a tricky thing to discuss sometimes, because it has been seen in the past that some teams will tactically bullet a blade pull either as a scare tactic or even horribly enough at particular individuals. I’ve had some blade pulls fly inches from my head before and it’s frightening even as an experienced player, so I can imagine someone who has not come across them before or is of a more frightened disposition then blade pulls can be a problem. That being said, if a team has an issue with blade pulls it should be discussed during and/or after a game. If they’re carried out properly (within bounds, not in an aggressive manner, and agreeing with Andrew stopped if the other team raises an issue) then there’s no reason why a team should be deducted in spirit scores for using blade pulls.
hazard
I think one of the main things that needs to be improved at Uni level is the communication. If a team is acting in a way which you think isn’t upholding spirit, you need to let them know. Otherwise I don’t think it’s fair to knock down other teams.
For instance, I personally don’t like blade pulls - for the reason Andrew says, that they can damage the disc (and geegee’s point is good too). However, I wouldn’t mark someone down for spirit for using them, especially without raising the issue with them. They are considered standard indoors (particularly in Men’s), and so without feedback I don’t think there’s any way to know that you’re behaving in a way that makes the other team uncomfortable.
I would raise it if either the disc seemed very likely to be damaged, or one of my players felt unsafe, I think.
Alun P
I’ve previously raised this with a team on those equipment damaging grounds, mainly as after warping the pitch disc and all the discs they had brought, I saw their puller picking my disc up from the sideline a signalling readiness. I guess all’s fair until it’s about to cost me a tenner.
Axel
The reason blade pulls got called out was for “intentional harming of players” which would hopefully never be the case. It wasn’t in ours.
I mean I disagree with the end bit about it being unspirited. Should I let the other team score cos they want to? Just cos they don’t want to receive the pull doesn’t make it my duty to make the game easier for them? However they did only tell us after the game and I told them that if we played them again we wouldn’t blade pull and I wouldn’t have thrown them to aggravate people. Cos that’s just douchey and doesn’t help the game.
Alun P
Partly in light of the absence of the top Scots (potentially due to some clashes with exams), our own hazard has posed the question whether UXIN's placement in the calendar is damaging it as an event, and whether it would be better off moved later. Hazard, the floor is yours to make the case
hazard
So, I want to start off by saying I am very grateful for all the volunteers at UKU and the work they do.
I do appreciate that working out how to fit in a giant schedule of Uni Ultimate is difficult. I also do see that there have been a couple of open forums and an AGM where people can raise their opinions and voices.
However, it was only this weekend that it really struck me how much mixed has been struck down indoors, as well as outdoors.
I don’t think my uni is unusual in focusing on Women’s the week before Women’s, and Men’s the week before Men’s.
This gave only a week before Nationals that we could really focus on being a Mixed team. Given how early it is in the year, we didn’t even have much time before Mixed Regionals either (what with wanting to give time to beginners).
Having Mixed Nationals as a mid-late January tournament and Men’s/Women’s as mid February means you could have a two/three week gap, and still allow teams to train for both.
As someone who prefers Mixed, it really sucks how little priority it gets at uni level. I know it isn’t BUCS. I don’t care. I personally find it a more enjoyable version of the sport, and we’re going to see fewer top uni athletes giving it a go at club level if their only experience at uni level is a couple really early indoor tournaments and a single swiss draw outdoor tournament.
Alun P
While I agree that mixed frisbee is best frisbee, I'll try and counter-argue. Surely relocating UXIN to January would create more issues with exam timings, as January exams would interfere with training for it, or even clash with the tournament. Also, the late January spot is currently COIR, which might take players away from some clubs.
hazard
I’ll admit to not being as aware about January exams (yes, my uni does everything weird), but I still feel there’s enough time later in the year to do it. Even if it leaves a two week gap - you’ve still had more time to train together before hand, and it means the overall standard might be higher (and produce more chemistry than just relying on strong individuals). For Regionals, we also focus a lot on training up new people. For Nationals, you need time to practice more advanced tactics too.
Alun P
As one of the very very few players who've been around long enough to play a UXIN back in 2013/14 when it was in early February, is the difference noticeable?
I also admit to being spoiled by the sheer number of indoor sessions Leeds had last year making that a non-issue: 2 beginner, one experienced mixed and one experienced men's per week (plus presumably some experienced women's), but not everyone can blag that much hall time
hazard
I think so yeah. It certainly seemed like a bigger deal overall. Maybe it was because this year my uni finally had a fair bit of turnover that it really struck home for me, but for a lot of unis that is every year.
Axel
I think the timing is a non issue as the calendar is already packed. If you move it you sacrifice other things. Mixed is legit but BUCS has to take priority for logical reasons atm. Make mixed BUCS and then maybe they can alternate what takes precedent between the three divisions. I don’t think having the tournament early has a knock on effect at club level considering everyone still trains and scrimmages mixed, it’s not like nationals is the only exposure available.
The timing at the start of the year is unfortunate but where are you gonna move it without interfering with something else? Do we have too many events (playing devil’s advocate but...)?
hazard
Ultimate has been generally improving at uni level overall though, so it can be tough to say. There’s a lot of factors to consider, but I will say this - if it keeps being early, then Scottish Unis starting in early September are going to keep having an advantage, as long as they send a team. And there’s your motivation to do something right there.
Alun P
Finally, we come to our traditional closer: name a power squad of eight from the tournament. Thanks to everyone who contributed, and we'll see you in the new year for UMWIN.
Rush
Axel Ahmala (UCL), Cameron Mackie, Gio Cabrera (both strath), Ben Jenkins (Edinburgh)
Hayley Dalmon (strath), Kirsten Black (Edinburgh), Zsofi Marozsàk (strath), Ellie Taylor (Aberdeen - even if she wasn’t there)
Haley Dalmon was also apparently absent - Ed.
Axel
Alvaro Iturmendi (Loughborough), Andrew Warnock (Strath), Mackie (Strath), CJ Colicchio (UCL)
Alicia Tan (UCL), Karina Aitken (Strath), Zsofi Marozsak (Strath), Natalie Knight (Bangor).
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