Interview with UWON Div 1 Winners: Imperial College London

Interviewer/Editor: nic
Additional Editing: hazard


PC: Imperial College Ultimate: discDoctors Facebook


Tell me about yourself and how you came to join Imperial.

Claire Baker, captain: I started Imperial in late 2017 to do a masters and PhD. As I'd played Ultimate during my undergrad in Southampton and Boston, I knew I'd continue at Imperial as a postgrad!


David Pryce, coach: I started my PhD at Imperial in 2010 and played for them in those 4 years, including coaching in my second year to get the Men's team to their highest finish (at that time). I also helped where I could, but never enough, with the then small Women's team, which by the time I left was having to combine with University College London at Outdoor National events. I then left and continued to play for Fire of London and Iznogood (Paris) before this season where I decided to take a playing break to focus on coaching: Imperial Women's and SYC.


Imy Younge, vice-captain: I started playing at Imperial when I was a fresher in 2016. I went on a mission to try out loads of new sports and societies; Ultimate is the one I’ve stuck with!


Claire: I knew DP from the ShowGame media and he'd approached me last year about getting involved in coaching the team, so when Imy and I were voted in as Captains we got back in touch and it took off from there!


Was winning Nationals something you imagined from the beginning of the year or has the success of the team been surprising? How does it feel to win the title?

DP: Once we knew the players we had it started to become a reality, and when we talked to the playing committee (Anna Rydlova, Si Ci Ong, Xinjin Ho, Katie Flight and Qiao Yan Soh) the potential for finishing high at National events really started to form in everyone's mind. Indoors we didn't quite have everyone or everything together but Outdoors was a big aim and once we made quarters I had faith we could do it. For me as a coach I can only feel pride in how much effort these awesome athletes put in, and trust that what I was asking was going to work. With a lot of players leaving this year there was a lot of emotion and added importance in taking this title. Everyone put everything into it!


Claire: Ahead of Nationals I believed we absolutely had the potential to come away with the title, but having just completed my 5th year of UK University Ultimate, I see how much the standard has improved each year and we knew that the task of winning Nationals would never be an easy one with the strength and depth of many of the teams at the top of the respective regions! The bulk of the players on our Nationals-winning team have developed together over the last 3-5 years so we knew we had a good opportunity to improve upon our top 8 outdoor finish from last year. Once we knew that we had a couple of our extremely experienced players returning from a brief break from Imperial for a PhD; (Qiao Yan Soh: GBW U24 2018, Iceni, Deep Space) and joining new for masters programs; (Katie Flight: Glasgow, GBX U24 2018, GBX 2019) we knew we had an extremely experienced group of players to work with, and the key would be to integrate everyone to figure out how to best utilize the skills of these experienced players. Alongside the new upcoming talent who we have developing through the ranks. I think the team were a bit disappointed with our 9th place finish Indoors, but knew our true strength would be in the Outdoor season (which was our true aim for the year from the off!)


Imy: We knew we had a strong team based on chemistry built up over the last few years, some strong masters players joining us or returning to Imperial (See DP's and Claire’s lists!) and success at Regionals, but also knew there would be some equally strong opposition at Nationals. A lot of the women are in the last year of their degree, and I think that now-or-never attitude has made a difference over the year - along with DP’s consistent belief in the team!


Winning Nationals feels great! I’m especially looking forward to celebrating with the teammates that weren’t able to make the tournament, and our developing players. I believe it was also dD’s first time winning a national title, and the support from both the current club members and alumni has been amazing!


DP: Planned celebration: tiramisu party. I promised the team at indoor regional to buy them all desert if they won. They did. So I paid up. This time I promised to double the tiramisu if they win nationals. They did. I am going to go bankrupt by tiramisu!!!


You have spoken about the build up to Nationals, and how that was your aim. How did you prepare? What were your trainings like?

DP: Due to Easter break and other Ultimate, we weren't able to have much training between Regionals and Nationals. But players were tasked to ensure they were personally fit (our strategy relied on super person D) and we also arranged a scrimmage against Iceni and SYC. To increase connections between our clubs but also to really try and test stuff out before getting to Nottingham.


Claire: We took a very beginner heavy team to Regionals to ensure the Women staying for next year all got a taste of competitive outdoors, even though we took a more experienced squad for Nationals itself they all played a huge part in our unbeaten run at Regionals and I'm excited to see them continue to develop!


You said a fair few are graduating, do you think you can retain the title next year? What is Imperial going to look like?

DP: I am yet to talk with the new captains but I would be interested in staying as coach. Expectations are yet to be set, I'm not sure who will arrive in postgrad courses yet but there is a large exodus. We shall have to wait and see I think but no aims yet.


Claire: A handful of the most experienced players are remaining but there's a lot of turnover. I was especially impressed with how some of last year's beginners have stepped up and grown as players over this past year (Jacelyn See and Veru Pudilova) so with only two years’ experience I’m sure they'll continue to develop into leaders on the field of the sorts that do graduate this year.


What were your highlights of the weekend?

DP: Apart from winning? The semi-final was a highlight (thanks to Strathclyde) after being a couple breaks up they battled back and made it universe point: I literally almost had a heart attack. Off pitch, a highlight for me would be dinner with both the men and women's team, always a lovely time, like a big family.


Imy: The semi-final against Strathclyde was one of my highlights too. It was definitely our toughest match, and I was proud of our mentality to come back from Strathy’s 2 point lead, and to win that upwind universe point! I also really enjoyed spending the weekend as a team - lots of the women on the team were hugely influential in teaching me to play, and it was great o have a fun weekend together as a team


DP: Omg Imy got the block in the sudden death point to ensure we won, basically won the title right there!!!


Claire: we did a lot of thinking about how to handle each team we faced, ahead of time and the trust in our plan, buy in and work rate from the team was ace. Also, seeing 5 Imperial Women's Captains on the same team (Imy, Si Ci Omg, Xinjin Ho, Qiao Yan Soh, me) and taking the title especially for those who've spent years coming up through the Disc Doctors ranks seeing the team get closer each year, and Imy's sudden death block is the okay of the weekend I keep going over and over.


Imy: Thanks, but I may never forget looking up to see Hayley Dalmon running at me at full speed!


How was it having the guys around? Did they help boost morale/did they sideline?

Imy: The guys have been supportive this whole year. Unfortunately, the scheduling meant the Women’s and Men’s teams couldn’t sideline each other much at Nationals, but the men turned out in full force for the final! They definitely added some sidelining (heckling?) to the final, but it was great to have their support there and really added to the excitement!


Claire: The guys are great, I think they're our number one fans. It's a fairly tight knit club with players from both teams always wanting to support one another wherever possible! It was great having them around for the final (the one game we didn't clash!) We also had a huge lot of support and sharing all the results as they came in with players who couldn't make it this year and some alumni too, and I feel the whole club has celebrated our on pitch success wholeheartedly this year.


Were there any key/standout players?

David: Well we can't ignore Katie Flight, Yan, Anna R, Si Ci and XinJin as major contributors ... I will let the captain's call out more and comment on how they contributed.


Imy: Katie Flights hucks and disc skills opened up so many new options for this team, and her deep defense was essential to shutting down other teams offence in so many matches. Yan Soh spent her weekend successfully defending the opposition’s fiercest O players, as well as bringing a constant positive and calm attitude to the team, which was super appreciated. Anna Rydlova’s work rate and pep talks were awesome, Si Ci Ong’s reliability on disc and ability to get free of anyone were awesome, Jin Ho’s defence was standout, as was Claire’s work on defence, especially on the force. We can definitely go on for quite a while listing stand out play, but will reign it in there!


DP: I agree with all that, I would also like to say that you could see the younger players learning from these standouts especially on just work rate and grit.


Claire: Xinjin's throws are not to go unmentioned too. Her and Katie made a mean handling pair. While we played a strong deep game for the majority of the weekend and relied on our strong person and poach defense sets. We also saw a lot of success with our final third offence: no one player to highlight here but the team effort for disciplined O here made our conversion rate in this area of the field generally good. Additionally as a team as a whole the level of throwing across the board is strong which undoubtedly helped us in Nottingham!


What are your thoughts on the Women’s BUCS League?

DP: BUCS league will be interesting and very happy for a step towards equality but no idea how it will play out. I expect a couple seasons of working it out and early mistakes but once it's settled down will be good to work out how to move another step forward.


Claire: I'm excited for a Women's BUCS League and think it's a good thing for Ultimate at university, and appreciate it being at the weekend. Historically I've found it's easier to recruit for one day events which is the current plan so I think it should be doable for most Unis to field teams for these, particularly if central venues are chosen. Interested to see how having one event so early in the year is but excited nonetheless to see how it unfolds.


How was the overall spirit of the weekend?

DP: I can't comment on field but big shout-out to Glen (UCL coach) and the Strathclyde coaches (Shaun Webb and Nicky Shaw) for clearly putting in a lot of effort for their teams and in particular Glen for some great and super spirited match-ups this season!


Claire: Echo DP. Spirit overall was great this weekend. Almost every spirit circle we shared commented on this, and in our games any issues that did crop up that we were aware of were sorted between players during or in the immediate aftermath of the game. Discussions in game were short and professional, rules knowledge was good and it was a pleasure to play such competitive & respectful games throughout the weekend. I think the level of knowledge/application of spirit and general competition level has grown a lot in the 5 years I've been playing and this is mirrored by the spirit scores across the division with hardly any spirit scores below 10 and the remainders being between 10 and 11. Felt this weekend Strathclyde were particularly professional and it was a pleasure to play such a hard fought game!


Besides winning (and the tiramisu, of course) what was the best thing to come out of the weekend?

DP: Katie getting a medal and Axel not? A great little frisbee family who will never forget this season? All three true but I'm sure you'll agree the latter is the best.


Claire: I hope the best thing to come out of the weekend will be the long term motivation for the newer players at Imperial. To see that a group of players, many of whom began playing as  Beginners at the university 5 or less years ago can grow together, work hard for each other and consistently build in skill to produce a stronger and stronger team. While we did have some fantastic standout players among the squad, the depth and skill level across the board is what underpinned the success we saw at Nationals, and that only comes with hard work from all the individuals involved.


Imy: Definitely spending time with a dedicated and fun group of women (and DP!) before lots of us graduate. Pretty sure we laughed as much on pitch as we did off pitch! Hopefully that attitude gets taken back to the club ahead of next years season - that no matter how bad the weather is or what’s just happened on pitch, we can always learn new things from each other and have a fun tournament.


Any advice for future captains?

DP: Get a good coaching team!


Imy: Any I’m excited to see what the Disc Doctors women’s team is like next year! The captaining team for next year is really strong, and with lots of developing Beginners I hope Disc Doctors has a great season next year. One of the biggest things that’s helped the Captains this year is using the skill sets and experience in the team, so don’t be afraid to ask the people around you for tactical advice or to run sessions. Also make time to get to know the other Captains - you’re all going through the same thing, and sharing the highs and lows of the year with the other captains has made this year much more enjoyable.


Claire: If you live near Club Ultimate teams, reach out to them for extra support whether its for coaching, competition or simply advice! We found many players are super willing to get involved and help out, especially when we provided a platform (e.g. a place to scrimmage at) upon which to do so. Whether you're new to captaincy or have done it many times before, reaching out to past captains, coaches and teammates is an awesome resource. It's a great thing that your team collectively will always bring more than any individual can so feed off that knowledge. You don't have to be the best player to be a great captain - you can even ask teammates if they're happy to run drills for particular skills they're good at which can help build confidence and skill across a whole team. Finally, don't be afraid to reach out and take time away from the team if you need: sometimes there are times when being a captain is full on and if you're stretched too thin, leading will be more challenging. Leading as part of a group this year has been awesome and a lot of fun, so I'd definitely recommend that!


Final thoughts and wishes...

DP: I would only like to thank everyone at Disc Doctors for all their hard work and especially the women for accepting my coaching and giving it their all. We didn't do it the prettiest way but we did it together!!


Imy: Thanks to Claire and DP for sharing so much of their knowledge over the year, and being really fun to work with. Disc Doctors has been a great club to be a part of - and as DP said, thanks to all the women’s team for bringing all their enthusiasm and knowledge to trainings and tournaments, as well as lots of cake!


Claire: Thanks to the TDs for running such a smooth Nationals, our opposition for providing determined and respectful challenges on the field all weekend and the whole Disc Doctors club for pushing each other over the course of the year. And of course Imy and DP for navigating this exciting year with me! I am excited to see where the BUCS league leads us as a sport division next year and beyond!



And that’s it. Good luck to everyone with their final exams and have a great summer!

Interview with UMON Div 1 Winning Captain: Andrew Warnock

Interviewer/Editor: Nic
Additional Editing: hazard

Now University Ultimate is over for another season, we spoke to Strathclyde’s Men’s Captain: Andrew Warnock, about their victory at Division 1 University Outdoor Men’s Nationals. They took the majority of the titles and made history for Strathclyde Ultimate! Their Women also took Bronze at Division 1, everything they have achieved has been incredible and not something to be overlooked. #Strathclydedominance

Photo credit - Jack Hughes
Introduce yourself and your team, tell us about you guys

I'm Andrew Warnock, the men's captain for Strathclyde. We've had an incredibly successful year winning 4 of the 6 national championships as a club!


How does it feel to lift that trophy and truly be the best University Men’s team in the UK?

Clichéd as ever, but it's been a long time coming. After finishing 4th in Division 2 in my first year the club has been on a meteoric rise, and from the start of this year we set a goal of winning this tournament and tried to train as the best team in the country every week. Relief and elation are the overriding emotions at the moment though.


After your bronze medal last year, how has your team developed over the last 12 months to take the trophy this time?

It's quite easy for a team to improve when 4 of its players play World's, and a lot of the others played throughout the summer when they could. 

But this year we also had Shaun Webb come on board as coach. He committed himself to the season 100%, brought a level of professionalism to the trainings that very few uni's must have, and made sure that every single player on the team had a role and performed it to the best of their ability.



What were your trainings like? How frequent were they?

We had Men’s Outdoor BUCS training once a week. Again, we always had in our minds at these trainings that no other team in the country would be training harder or better than us but, there was also a real team spirit that made it easy to enjoy. 

On top of this, there was also another whole club outdoor session, and two other indoor sessions each week. Priority for attending them did differ throughout the year but the men's trainings stayed very consistent.



That is a huge commitment from your men that a lot of university teams struggle to maintain, what is the secret to such strong commitment from the team?

It's difficult to pinpoint, but the depth of Strathclyde as a club is ridiculous - highlighted by things like sending 4 teams to University Men’s and Women’s Indoor Nationals.  So at the majority of trainings numbers weren't an issue. However, this does create some competition for spots on the team. So I think each person knew that if they weren't going to commit fully they might not be a part of the team that ends up winning Nationals!


Considering the depth and commitment of your squad, do you think you are going to be able to hold on to your title next year? How different is Strathclyde going to look?

There will be a few players leaving the team that played a huge role in the win. But the 'so called' less experienced lads on the team at the weekend stepped up more than I could ever of hoped so I have no doubt the club will continue to thrive. As a club we also really emphasize growing and teaching the new players so we certainly won't be a one and done kinda club. In my first ever proper tournament I remember watching Strathclyde firsts winning Men’s Indoor Regionals which was a pretty big deal at the time. It inspired me to want to win with them as well so I'm hoping our success this weekend can do the same for some of the fresher’s.

Are you leaving?...
Are there any players that deserve a particular special mention?


I am leaving (although there is a small chance of a panic masters...).
Gio Cabrera was my handling partner the whole weekend and just came up huge in every important part of the weekend, Ben Cornelius played as good as I've ever seen him play and was probably the most relaxed player on the pitch at each moment. Most uni teams have one big dude that'll be pretty unstoppable going downfield but we had two in Cameron Mackie and Ian Tait - probably the only people capable of stopping the other one. I feel like I could just say something about every one of my teammates but that might take a while.

Saturday didn’t seem as comfortable for you - although you didn’t play bad it certainly wasn’t your strongest performance. What made the difference between Saturday and Sunday?

Losing to Birmingham in the pools was a bit of a wakeup call for us. As you said we didn't play badly but little things didn't quite go our way and Birmingham I think just wanted it more than we did. However on the Sunday there was a clear mental shift and everybody seemed to work much harder for each other and we realised that if we gave everything and played to our best ability no team was good enough to stop us.

As mentioned in previous interviews with yourself, I didn’t hear Wonderwall once over the weekend (and I watched a fair few of your games). What prepared you for the games? Any pre-match rituals/new songs? Something that would increase your mentality going into the game?

Wonderwall usually features (with no exception this weekend) on the bus ride in, so fear not we didn't stray from the norm. But we did change up the warm ups on a couple of occasions so we didn't get bored, for instance we played goalty before our quarter vs Edinburgh. Also there are a few squad members who are Liverpool fans (myself included) so most (all) of our songs/chants for during games are stolen from them.

What was your personal highlight of the weekend?

There were so many big plays/throws/bids especially on the Sunday, but Ben Cornelius' roly poly grab in the final has got to top it!

Ah, we put a name to the face! That did look rather cool. Any particular game/s that stood out?

Definitely the final. Birmingham are such an athletic, well spirited, enjoyable team to play against and we have matched up with them in the later stages of just about every Nationals this year. At University Mixed Indoor Nationals we played hacky sack with them before we played each other in the semi. Since then there has been a real mutual respect that has followed onto the pitch!

Any shock surprises you found over the weekend? 

The top 4 was exactly as I expected, and the only real surprise was seeing Glasgow outside the top 8, but with a tricky pool and no crossovers it's a shame we couldn't get a few more Scottish teams finishing nearer the top. In the Women's Division, I was very surprised to see Edinburgh in the final! Repping Scotland well and a huge result for them to get a silver.

As you mentioned the lack of crossovers between the top and bottom eight in Men’s Division 1, it did upset a few teams.
What were your thoughts on the tournament in general?


It was nice for us not to have to play a crossover despite coming 2nd in the pool so I can't say it really affected us negatively in anyway. The teams that deserved medals all ended up with them. But as always the general running of the tournament was excellent. Literally nothing went wrong from our perspective which when you consider the scale of the tournament with the number of divisions being held is quite remarkable. So big kudos to UKU and all its staff for that!

So, Spirit. First, did you complete your spirit scores (some teams hadn’t filled out any), and what are your thoughts on completing spirit nowadays? And how did you find your weekend overall?

I did do the spirit scores! I have seen a lot of chat recently about spirit at university level, and about if teams should have spirit captains. Although, we didn't have a spirit captain it was pretty much my role as captain but it fairly easy to do because every game we played was well spirited. I'm not sure how you solve the problem of teams simply not filling out scores, apart from punishing them somehow. But it does just seem like the idea of spirit at university level has never been something that has been particularly important, and winning a spirit prize is just seen as a small added bonus instead of something to actually be celebrated. For this to change there would have to be a pretty significant shift in the mind-set of most teams. However saying this, small changes like being able to see comments made from submissions can help if there is something that certain teams need to work on. Maybe more small changes like this could make a big difference.

Any parting goodbyes (if you’re actually leaving) and well wishes to your past/present/future Strathclyde teammates?

Just a huge thank you to all the guys and gals at Strathclyde that have made my uni life an incredible experience! But to those staying around for next year, hopefully I've taught them that their degree should always come second to Frisbee!


Congrats and well done Strathclyde for a hugely successful year! Good luck and party hard.

Suggested Etiquette for Messaging about Spirit

Writer: hazard
Editor: Alun/hazard

One of the recent changes we've seen in the UK for announcing spirit is the de-anonymising of spirit scores. While this has been standard in international competitions such as EUCF for a while, it is the first time we've seen it on a local stage.

I am a big fan of this change overall, but it does lead to new ground in spirit that I think it is wise to address. We are going to have a lot more messaging of teams after the game about spirit scores that have been given.

Even before the change in system, I have been on both sides of these exchanges.* I have had some which have been productive, and some... less so. The times when it has works, it has been a super productive thing to do, and I encourage it overall.

Consequently, I wanted to share my experience of navigating what can potentially be some very difficult conversations. As always, these are my personal opinions, and so likely flawed. Hopefully you can find them useful as guidelines, and maybe even let me know some useful thoughts I can implement in future too!

* Yes, even the recent 7 average my team received at UXON has been settled amicably with all involved, and we've received some good feedback too.


PC: UCL


Etiquette for both parties


Be polite. Spirit should not end when you step off the field.

If possible, try to communicate during your game who the spirit representative is.

Give any feedback you can on field, and in the spirit circle. Spirit scores should not be a shock to teams. Ideally, you should let a team know if they've crossed a line at the time, so that they can implement the feedback in real time. It is much easier to communicate in person.

Give good feedback as comments too! I personally like to leave comments for any "1"s, but I'm aware this might be too much for some. Involve your whole team, and have the guidelines at hand to read through if you're unsure a category is between scores. Read through all the "2"s the first time you do scores - it roots scoring in a good framework, and makes newer players more confident about how to score correctly.

Realise it is very easy to miscommunicate online. This isn't a debate you're trying to win - this is an amicable discussion to try to improve the experience we will all have on field. Don't jump on each other - ask for clarification, rather than seeking to point out flaws.

You are representing your team. Even if you didn't agree with a teammate's perspective, you must still present it honestly. You can always message your team if you want to, if you want clarification yourself. 


PC: Andrew Moss for the ShowGame

Etiquette for the team wanting more spirit feedback


While spirit is at heart a conversation, this is a situation where you are reliant on someone else's feedback, and for them to go above and beyond what is typical. Be polite, and accept that the thing you benefit most from here is listening.

If a team doesn't want to give extra feedback, accept that and move on.

In terms of whom you should contact, messaging friends on a team can be useful, but a spirit captain/captain/team page is best. In all cases, be polite, and give the player an opportunity to refuse your request without feeling bad. Also, if you were involved in a controversial incident, it might be wise to let someone else message, even if you are spirit captain. 

Make it clear in your message that you are seeking feedback on how to improve/identify where you crossed a line, rather than just trying to bring up an old issue.

Listen carefully. It's still a conversation - feel free to ask questions - but keep the topic questions focussed on how to improve in future, rather than on defending specific incidents in the past. Those incidents have happened, and as annoying as it is to think someone's perspective is incorrect, tough. Arguing now wont change anything in the game, and isn't pleasant for the person spending more time to try to help you.

This above is probably the most important point in this article, so I want to emphasise it. We all want to be proven right retrospectively. It's natural. We want to say we were hard done by, and that a spirit call was inaccurate. And yet, I don't think I've ever had a good discussion about a specific incident, unless it was coming from a place of uncertainty (usually for double checking the application of the rules - for which a neutral party is good too). Talk about it on field. Talk about it right after. Then let it go.

Make sure any feedback is given to the rest of the team, even if it's awkward. Relay it honestly, and without bias. If your teammates see you respect* the feedback, then they will feel more satisfied with the outcome and more willing to take it on board.

*Respecting is not always agreeing, but it is always acknowledging it as a valid perspective. Present your own opinion separately if you want to, but don't present it as more valid than the feedback you are given, or teammates will discard it out of hand.


PC: Alice Hanton for the ShowGame


Etiquette for the team giving spirit feedback


Assume the player is talking from a place of good faith. This may be hard - they are messaging you about feedback for bad spirit after all. The player messaging you may even have been involved in incidents themselves. But you have to assume that they want to improve, and will take your advice on board. If they then seem to go against that trust, you can stop the conversation. But you must give them that trust first.

Be clear about what feedback is based on topics you discussed in your spirit circle, and what are extra opinions you are giving on top of that. Don't worry if you can't remember everything - you are human.

Let your team know you've provided feedback - after a less spirited game, it's nice to know the team acknowledged it and wants to improve.

It is still a discussion, and it's possible the other team has feedback for you! Remember that they still have a valid perspective. The best discussions I have had have involved conversations about how to improve, with both sides offering and considering suggestions.

Try to base your feedback in specifics about how to improve (e.g. It'd be nice to see more hand signals so that teams can know what occurred on field), and base spirit score feedback in specifics too (e.g. we gave you a one in fair mindedness because you were inconsistent in your calls between the first and second half). General stuff can still be helpful, but is hard to tangibly convert into solid changes.


--

I think that's all I can think of for know, but I'll edit this article and add things if we think of anything in particular, or if there's any comments with points we particularly enjoy! Let us know what you think. This is my perspective, I'd be interested in hearing yours.

What Went Down At: UXON 2018/19

Editor/Chair: hazard (Oxford)
Contributors: Becky Greenwood (Loughborough), Clackers (Lancaster), geegee (Birmingham), Alice Hanton (Leeds), Axel (UCL)
Additional Contributions*: Amy Niven and Alex Thompson (Newcastle Captains)
*These quotes were generously provided externally to the chat
Spirit Scores

Full Results
1. UCL
2. Birmingham 1
=3. Newcastle 1
=3. Oxford
=5. Aberdeen
=5. Sheffield
=5. St. Andrews
=5. Strathclyde
=9. Birmingham 2
=9. Durham 1
=9. Edinburgh
=9. Leeds 1



UCL celebrate being Mixed Outdoor National champions!
Photo Credit: UCL

hazard
Firstly, how did we feel about not having Swiss draw? Did we prefer the tournament format? And did it do a better job of sorting teams and finding a winner?


Becky Greenwood
Yeah I preferred it without Swiss draw


Clackers
I really didn't like having bracket instead of Swiss, it kind of ruins things for the teams lower down the seedings. We only had one close match the entire weekend, and it wasn't either of them on the Sunday.


Having 9 unseeded teams in the tournament meant that there was a serious chance of teams finding themselves bottom of their group through no fault of their own, and unable to climb out of it, coupled with the fact that the teams that came 4th in a group of 4 were destined to only play each other, and unable to play teams that came 3rd in a group of 3.
For the top 16 the tournament may have been a fair reflection of skill on the weekend, for the bottom 13 I am unsure if any of the final placings were accurate.


hazard
I have to say I missed swiss draw. The seedings did their best, but I think there’s always a situation where two good teams end up facing off early in a tournament, with no way to recover (this weekend Edinburgh were guaranteed to face UCL or Strathclyde in the pre-quarters, which is tough in anyone’s books). With that said, I did enjoy the quarters-semis-final run in. A lot of tournaments do a hybrid system of swiss initially, knockout at the end. I think that could be good going forward.


geegee
Swiss draw with a knockout stage is pretty good, it's pretty effective. I'm not sure how the results would've been affected if at all between a standard system or Swiss draw, but the seedings this weekend was a little bizarre. We had Aberdeen and Glasgow in our pool, which was super daunting and tough because they're such good teams, and there were definitely other teams put in odd seedings too.


The weather did also affect results, moreso because a lot of games got cancelled so some teams couldn't challenge the upper rankings. UKU did a really good job overall in getting games running, and communicating to players what was happening though.


hazard
Totally agreed with UKU managing a tough situation well (both the swiss draw system not working and the weather rendering some pitches unusable). I left it up to my captains, but communication seemed good and it felt like we were kept informed promptly of developments.


Axel
Swiss draw is useful for seeding the tournament considering its at a time (and now with it being the only not-BUCS nationals) when teams may not be at full strength or it may not be the season focus. However, I've always lamented the lack of bracket play. I still think the top teams ended up at the top and Nationals is there to find the top team accurately, not the top 16. But I do like Swiss Draw's excitement.


But UKU did pretty well, especially at cramming the games in and managing to make the final full length, even though it cost others some game time. As I say, Nationals is there to find the best team, I don't even feel that there is a need play games once eliminated (though I understand why people do).


Alice Hanton
Think we (Leeds) would have preferred swiss- weren't too happy with our 4v13 crossover against Aberdeen...
Felt sorry for the TDs though with the website, weather, pitches etc 😂


geegee
It was interesting looking back at overall game results and wondering whether a different schedule and/or different conditions could have made a drastic change. Teams like Leeds and Durham had a very tough time outside of the pools. As Alice said, Leeds had to face a strong Aberdeen team in the pre-quarters which pushed them all the way down, with not much wiggle room to climb back up. The weather was very much out of UKU's hands, and absolute credit for getting a schedule out in such short notice. I can't help but feel a little confused about the seeding choices however.


hazard
I'd like to jump on that and talk about one of the other main talking points of the weekend. For the first time in a long time, there were no Scottish teams in the top four! It is a testament to Scotland's strength that having 3 teams in the top 8 still counts as a bad weekend. However, particularly considering it was a Scottish venue, and a few teams (Loughborough, Bath) chose not to make the trip up, this felt like a result that we wouldn't have predicted beforehand. Was it a case of Scottish teams underperforming? Or English teams stepping up for once?


Axel
Birmingham are a long standing good performer, Newcastle over-performed and Oxford lucked out no the draw. UCL have a freak pick-up year.  Glasgow didn't have all their best players and have a down year on the Women's side, Edinburgh got unlucky in their cross, Strathclyde underperformed, St Andrew's probably placed about right. Its slightly worse than normal, I don't think it should be panic stations for Scottish Uni Ultimate, but the region (bar Strath, arguably Glasgow men) isn't as strong as in previous years. They are still the deepest region by a mile, but they may be being matched at the top end by a few teams who have risen a bit. Birmingham and UCL still haven't beaten Strath. Them two, the two Glasgow sides and Bath are the best 5 teams this year on the Men’s side and I believe I am correct in saying that only UCL has beaten one of those two Scottish teams this year (of the teams outside Scotland).


Basically, at mixed it was a mix of reasons, but there is no reason to over-analyse one set of results and define the region by that.
They are still the best region, but maybe the top end is being challenged a bit more than in the last few years.


hazard
I would agree Strathclyde underperformed, but I’ll add a bit of specificity - I think they underperformed in one game, and not by much. Newcastle are a good side this year, and Strathclyde (who came out the positive side of a lot of sudden deaths at Mixed Indoors) finally seemed to feel the pressure a bit in their quarter final. A bit of a crowd was there, it was sudden death, and both teams had possessions, but I think Strathclyde were a bit too eager to force something which wasn’t there.


Amy Niven and Alex Thompson 
The Strathclyde game against us (Newcastle) was brilliant fun. Our Women’s indoor team had had a really great game against them in Nottingham and we were excited to come up against them at outdoors. We like to harp on about the strength of our women and winning the Strath game has filled us with anticipation for how they do at Women’s Nationals. The weather had calmed down considerably by the time we came to play them on Sunday but the wind changed the game entirely. Strath’s early break into the 15km/h upwind really put us on our heels, but we managed to keep fighting and eventually break back to take the game on the flip’s outcome.


hazard
Moving around Scotland, I’ll also say Aberdeen were very good too - as Alice and geegee said. Ellie Taylor is one of the best players on the club circuit, so at uni level she’s kind of overpowered. The rest of the squad is also great, if small in number (I was thinking the short game time would help them most of any team). And Andrew Hunter had some really great and safe bids to pressure all our shots.


Oxford beat them in our quarter final partly due to sheer outrunning them (our numbers + S&C training helped), and knowledge from our previous game against Imperial, where a team also relied on a dominant female player with strong hucks (Katie Flight).


(I know Ellie is a great cutter too, but we forced her under as we were more able to deal with the throws than her just getting mega yards deep)


Axel
Aberdeen are good, but they just don't have the depth of good players on either gender to challenge the best teams. Their guys are good but not excellent and after Ellie there is a severe drop off. They are a top 8 mixed team, but not top 4 and that’s where they ended up. The bigger surprises (to me) are Glasgow and Strathclyde not finishing higher and Edinburgh. But we can see that Glasgow and Edinburgh suffered at the hands of the seeding. Then that sends me back in a loop to say again that Nationals is there to find the best team, not place the rest of them correctly, though it is ideal when that can happen as well.


hazard
Let's move on to the team that did finish well then. UCL claimed their first ever Mixed outdoors title, beating Birmingham 10-8 in the final. Axel, care to give us a run down of UCL's weekend?


Axel
UCL's weekend was an interesting mix. Our first game against Strath was a bit of a limp one. We both knew it didn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. It was about bedding in and not getting injured. The first half was alright from both sides. The second half wasn't great and Strath scrapped out almost all the points to take it. From there we always talk about developing with every game and we managed to do that. We grew a lot against Edinburgh taking a big win in a tough prequarter. Then we had Sheffield who was a bit of a lucky draw, as well as Oxford in the semi. We started both games a bit slowly before dominating.


The final was an interesting one, there may have even been a few nerves at the start from our inexperienced lot. Then our D started rolling and it wasn't really ever in question what the result was gonna be.


No team other than Strathclyde managed to play good offence against our female triangle, with Oxford guessing about 6 different looks and never guessing right (to my hearing). Birmingham swung it a lot with their women which is what we wanted.


We got told after the game that we didn't play great mixed, which I completely disagree with. We may not have used our women on offence a great deal as we played to the conditions and our women are really strong on D and not as strong on O. But I think we could say the opposite of Birmingham. Its crazy how they didn't use their guys at all (what terrible mixed.. jk jk). Thats just a line no one will say, our guys were stronger than theirs so we played offence through the best match ups available to us. But overall the final itself was really fun, despite Birmingham seeming to have some misgivings about the way we played. Best game was against Birmingham cos in the end they managed to pressure our tactic, unfortunately we were going to do it anyways cos of the wind, so the final wasn't the best watch.


Overall it was a successful tournament for a team that doesn't ever train together. We grew as a team and came out with everyone smiling with medals around their necks. The weather even gave us some sun at the end. People stayed over in Scotland for Monday cos we never get to come up there. Maybe the next one can be in Aberdeen so that we can see some more of the country?


geegee
Playing against UCL was interesting, but the final was very fun. UBU as a team were very happy with how we played together. On defence UCL women had a really effective poach system that made it difficult to generate flow. They were very male-dominant on offence, so whilst our male defenders did everything they could, working really hard and we sometimes used a female deep poach, the shot from Axel to Colicchio was often too difficult to take down. It's a structure that works for them.


Some elements of spirit were called into question during the final, but those few incidences definitely does not represent the whole squad. The UCL sideline was very good at communicating, and the squad was for the most part very respectful and great banter.  Would like to add an overall kudos to the Southern teams that made the effort to make the journey up to St Andrews; it was hard enough from the Midlands! Particular shout out to Southampton who drove all the way up - that is commitment.


hazard
I think I'd agree with you geegee. Our semi-final against them ended up 10-5, but I think a cleaner way to write it would be that UCL got two upwind breaks to our zero. Axel to CJ Collichio was near unstoppable, but not 100%. We did have a few chances to try to work upfield against it, and credit to UCL from stopping us from ever clawing one back. Considering UCL have come 2nd and 1st at the last Women's Outdoor Nationals, it is nice to see some of that glory finally spread to the guys in the mixed division. Although I think they will have been glad not to see Strathclyde in the final.


hazard
It's nice to see Birmingham still fighting right at the top of the tournament as well. They're always close, but I believe it might have been the first final for a couple years?


geegee
It is the first time in a while yes, I believe the last time Birmingham were in a mixed final was the 2015-2016 season, so some of our longer standing players (Adam Vaslet, James Firth, Lucy Graves, Melodie Zehnder for example) who have been with the team for a while were ecstatic to have come this far again finally.


hazard
We've already mentioned the final, but you guys had a tough route (and certainly pool) to get there did you not?


geegee
Yeah we had a tough pool with back to back games. Aberdeen to start off with and our offence took a while to warm up, their defence capitalised very well and they got a few up on us. We came back with a lot more clinical O and took the win, going into a universe point win against Glasgow who were up by at least 3 at some point. Glasgow worked the disc well, got some crucial blocks where we ran out of steam. Both very very talented teams, and a pleasure to play against.


From there we played Southampton to go into quarters on Sunday against the home team St Andrews. Semi against Newcastle was great fun - they have developed a lot of depth over the years and it has paid dividends. It was a close game and we had to fight for it because they did not make it easy. Fantastic spirit as well, they've always been very spirited in all three divisions so to have that continue into closely contested games is brilliant.
Our second team finished 10th as well, having a mix of experienced players and some playing outdoors for the first time competitively!

hazard
Yeah, 10th is really impressive. Ok, let’s get some quick summaries from joint third-place Newcastle and Oxford to finish.


Amy Niven and Alex Thompson
It was a really difficult weekend conditions wise but the Newcastle team that we brought was not only physically strong but mentally strong as well. We were exceptionally proud of the efforts of our team. I think a few people suspected that we could obtain the position that we did and it felt really great to show everyone the success of our hard work this academic year. As captains we really switched up the way that our team trained this year and it's exciting to see that its been getting results.


We are really proud of our position but want to make a request on behalf of ourselves and Birmingham (and Oxford)… 2nd and 3rd should get medals too!

Otherwise, shout outs to who Alex Monaghan really killed it in the Birmingham game in particular. Skying folk left, right and centre. Sam Griffiths also did a great job of catching the winning disc against Strathclyde. Big ups to Yasmin Gill who is a 2nd year who was doing a shitload of upwind handling; and also Rio Hamilton - she did some critical offensive work in the Birmingham game which was so crucial considering how tired and cold we all were. Also everyone they all did big work for us this weekend. #nobignames #allbignames.

And our second team were so great this weekend and they were really good for giving some hype on the sidelines with the famous “how many pies? Too many pies” chant that we all know and love. 😉

Amy Niven
I do genuinely wanna shout out my co-captain Alex too (we were joking about it so need him to know it's serious). He's done really great work with the men for this tournament and has been has really stressed the importance of 'proper mixed' to the men on our squad which i think is often overlooked.

hazard
Mind if I ask what you’ve switched up for training this year? It really has been impressive seeing you emerge to challenge the top teams this season.

Amy Niven and Alex Thompson
We've brought a lot of new drills to out sessions and we've really been pushing fitness which was something we've never really done before. We've always relied on people working on their own fitness outside of trainings but this year we've discovered that finding time for it is worthwhile.




hazard
Moving onto Oxford, we felt overall our weekend went fairly well, as you might expect. We do a lot of mixed trainings, and we would count ourselves as Mixed specialists (our results in Men's and Women's might stand as testament to that...). While I think we did well in avoiding Birmingham or UCL until the semis, I think that victories against Durham, Imperial and Aberdeen give a not unfair route to the top 4 (although I would have loved a game against St. Andrews, who also beat Durham and Imperial - both of us winning in sudden death against Durham).


Kiyomi Ran and Steph Jordan did some really solid handling for us (and Jeff Sload had some great puts, despite the double foot block). And I'm also going to shout out co-captain Phili Kent for some fantastic cuts and for bailing me out by catching a scooba I probably shouldn't have thrown.


We felt like indoors came too fast, and that we didn't have time to prepare. Here, our whole team was so much more solid this weekend than it has been before. Worth the ten hour trip, and I don't say that lightly. Also, 50% of the southern teams came top 4 #southerndominance


hazard
Expanding on a point in the chat, Axel and myself had a discussion about what Nationals is for. I came up with the following reasons, and Axel had his responses of whether he agreed. I’ve combined them for brevity, but I think it’s a good set of closing thoughts and I’d love to hear what any readers think about this (either my list of potential reasons of Axel's responses).

hazard + Axel
Nationals should provide a showcase of great University Ultimate
Yes, if possible, and this point would be more prevalent if there were spectators or streaming to more people who don't follow Ultimate (or UK Ultimate). Though this showcase should come from the quality of the teams playing, not necessarily the format of Nationals.


Nationals should also provide a ranking of team strength, beyond just which team is at the top
If possible yes, but if there was a good algorithm in place, we would know this ranking before Nationals and it wouldn't have to be decided there. All we need to do is play more cross regional matches once they are worth playing.


Nationals should provide as many close games as it can
This point is not on the UKU at all, or the organisers of Nationals. Close games come from teams training hard and trying to be the best. For example it isn't the organisers fault that Strath women blew everyone out of the water at UWIN. Close games are entertaining and good for the sport and will develop teams more in the long run. But that is down to the teams to provide that through their strengths and skills, not the organisers.


Nationals is a chance for development (i.e. a team might have no chance of winning, but be in a better position to win next year by giving players experience against other good teams)
This is true for teams who go and compete to have the experience of playing. But it isn't a priority for Nationals. The tournament is an end goal of the uni season. If there were more teams and more tournaments, development would happen earlier and Nationals would just be the best 16 or 20 teams fighting it out to win. Im sure every team currently brings some dev players (if not a whole dev squad) to prepare for future years, but that is on the teams to do, not for the organisers to provide. Div 2 and 3 are chances for development realistically.


Nationals should be a showcase of high-level spirit
Shouldn't every game be. Though spirit at uni level is so messed up already that I don't know if uni nationals can be this showcase in the near future.


Nationals should make extra effort to ensure the journey was worth the effort for all teams, in order to ensure all the best teams are present
If the best teams are discouraged from going, it won't really be Nationals. But I think the best teams want to win and play at the best venues (or I'd hope so). So the organisers should ensure the best venues possible. The journeys in the UK are short in general, if teams decide not to go, it’s a shame, but if they are potential winners they don't have much of an excuse if they don't go and try to win. If that makes sense. The organisers can't put the event near Team X cos this year they are good and if the venue is too far, they won't turn up. And the other 15 teams are more likely to travel.


Nationals should give each region an equal chance to claim a title (à la Men’s Outdoors)
No, bring all the top teams to Nationals ranked through an algorithm. If a region is terrible one year then their programmes have to sort it out. Let's say that the Midlands had the 16 best teams, then surely you want to see them compete and not throw in a South team to get battered every game if they were ranked 50th in the country, but best in their region.


Nationals should only feature the top teams, regardless of region
Agreed, similar to the above point really.

University Indoors in the Past Decade

Writer/Editor: Hazard A couple of weeks ago, I  wrote an article talking about how UXIR has see n a drop in both the number of teams and th...