Interviewer/Editor: hazard
Before reading this article, all involved wished to emphasise that every experience as a mother is unique. This chat is designed to highlight three unique experiences of motherhood. Some mothers will experience pregnancy, others will not. Some who do become pregnant will have problems, others will not. We would encourage you to talk to each other and, particularly with regards to returning from Ultimate, to not pressure yourself/teammates into doing anything other than following the advice given by medical professionals.
Let's start with introductions! Who are you all?
Nic: My name is Nicola Edwards, I started playing Ultimate in my last year of university at Huddersfield. I have now been playing for three years, and have played for clubs such as; Black Sheep, Flyght Club and Merseyside.
Alia: My name is Alia Ayub. I started playing in 1998 at the University of St Andrews. I played GB women in 2003-4, 2007-8. I started the UK Women's Tour in 2004, and am a founding member of Iceni. I also helped organise the European Ultimate Federation and the Secretary of that organisation. I captained the India-Pakistan Peace team at the inaugural Beach World Championships. I was inducted into the Iceni Hall Of Fame in 2007, and the University of St Andrews Athletic Union Hall Of Fame in 2013 for my work on the development of the sport.
Annie: Hi, I'm Annie. I'm the coach for Durham University Women's team and until recently an O line handler for SMOG, including at WUCC 2018. I've been playing for 10 years, and like Alia, also began at St Andrews although, we only overlapped when she was inducted into the Hall Of Fame.
Alia: Annie, that means that Benji Heywood taught us both to play! How long has he been in St Andrews now? It’s because of him that I was nominated for the award at St Andrews. What a great ally for Women’s Ultimate!
What has been your proudest moment in your Ultimate career?
Nic: My proudest moment would be at university, where we iron-manned Outdoor Division 2 Nationals (I wouldn’t recommend) and we won the whole thing by a substantial margin. We all worked so hard and played incredibly well together as a team, it was 100% worth the pain in the end!
Annie: I think its got to be throwing our first score against Slow White (USA) at worlds. It was my first stat of the tournament, and a nice break too.
Alia: Playing GB Women's in 2003 was an incredible experience for me, and I wanted to be able to play more Women’s Ultimate throughout the year. At that time, there was no Women’s Tour and no geo Women's clubs (other than in Bristol.) In 2004 I organised one-day tournaments called the Women’s All-Stars series, where each city was encouraged to send a Women’s team consisting of players who lived in the same area. The first one was hosted in London on 21 January 2004. Creating a new format to bring female Ultimate players together in the pre-tour days, and seeing the amazing talent in one space was simply magical, and made me proud of everyone who came together to make it happen. Seeing the immense raw talent of Women’s Ultimate players in the UK totally fuelled me in ensuring a Women's division would be included at Tour.
It may seem rather surprising now to hear it, but there was resistance to have a separate Women’s division; the reason being that organisers didn’t think that there was enough interest in this division. If there weren’t people willing to lead geo-teams, this project would have folded straight away. In London, the motto of “if we build it, they will come” was how the team that is now known as Iceni was created. It consisted of women of all abilities who committed to training together regularly, and buying into the program and goals set by the leadership.
I remain ever grateful to everyone who helped make that possible, but a particularly big shout out goes to Aura Mackenzie who got to practice early every week, rain or shine. As captain she helped us all learn that everyone could become a top-class Ultimate player, so long as we put in the work together.
At what age/point in your playing career did you have your (first) child?
Annie: James was born in Nov 2016. I was 25, and it was SMOG's first big season. We qualified for Worlds the next summer, and I played Euros just before he turned 1. I've just had my second baby, she's called Katie and is 2 weeks old.
Alia: I discovered that I was pregnant with my first child the day before Tour 1 in 2013. I was 34 years old. I sent a text to my captain saying that I couldn’t play as I had a “parasite” … I didn’t want to lie, so this was the closest I could get to explaining why I pulled out.
Nic: I had my daughter before I started playing Ultimate so the next few questions may not be relevant for me however, I’ll introduce her. I had Sophie when I was 17 and I took her to university with me when she was just 5 months old. I started playing Ultimate when she was 2 and a half.
Nic, what were the factors you considered when deciding whether to take up Ultimate as a young mother?
Nic: At university, when I attended trainings and a good amount of my friends were also at trainings, so I took her with me and it was very much a team effort in looking after her. She’d chase us onto the pitch and pick up all the cones but because my teammates had spent time with her they were more than happy to help and let me have a point
Annie/Alia, how long did you keep playing into your pregnancy?
Annie: First time I played properly including Tour until 22 weeks-ish and then didn't do much else. Second time I didn't play much because the outdoor season was over, but I did fitness and played occasionally at trainings all the way up to 36 weeks.
I also coached all the way through both pregnancies, including going to University Nationals with DUF at 36 weeks.
Alia: Everyone handles pregnancy in different ways, but I decided that as soon as I knew that I was pregnant that I would not play Ultimate in a recreational or tour setting. This is a very personal topic, and everyone has their own take on what is best or right. But I remember being uncomfortable playing against other pregnant players and backing off for fear of the small but real risk of “bumping the bump.” I didn’t want to take that risk either. This said: I wish that I had invested in other sporting habits before falling pregnant, as I went from being an active person, to not doing more than going for long walks. Of course, that is totally fine, as each pregnancy is different, but I wonder if some of the recovery issues I faced post pregnancy could have been better managed if I had remained more similarly active, just shy of playing Ultimate.
Annie: I agree with Alia that its a difficult personal decision. Made harder by the fact that so few midwives know what you're on about when you say Ultimate.
Which of these factors would you say were the biggest influences on how long you played?
Physical ability (how long you actually feel able to play)
Personal decisions (how long you personally want to keep playing)
Societal pressure (how the community felt playing against/with you when you were pregnant)
Annie: First time round I was entirely dictated by social pressure - I didn't want to make people uncomfortable but I was fit and keen to play for much longer than people were willing to play against. Second time I was much more limited by my own physical ability just because I had a different pregnancy
Alia: Physical ability: I know I still could have played. Personal decision: this was a big one for me, as I never liked marking up on pregnant teammates or opposition for fear of accidentally “bumping the bump.” Societal pressure: I just removed myself completely, and that was actually quite isolating going from Ultimate being a core aspect of my life, to not engaging at tournaments at all. Retrospectively, I wish that I had taken up coaching while pregnant with my first child. 🙂
Annie: Yep, taking up coaching while pregnant was hugely positive for me.
How did you find returning to Ultimate after having a child?
Alia: Post-first birth, I started seeing a PT to work on getting my fitness back. A challenge I faced was that I had diastasis recti, which means split abs, due to the pregnancy. I managed to get to a level of fitness, and had closed the gap in my abs to the point where I could compete at Mixed Tour with the Herd’s 2nd team. I got to handle a fair bit, which was such fun as I had been a receiver in my pre-baby life. I remained active during my second pregnancy in 2017, and had a PT throughout my pregnancy and soon after the birth of my second child. My son is 18 months old, and I have still not been able to return to the sport since this pregnancy as the gap in my abs is still too big, and would risk causing long-term health issues. Slowly but surely, I will get there. I go to Mumhood classes at FRAME Victoria, and I am working on closing up my diastasis recti as much as I can, while strengthening the rest of my body so it’s ready for the day my core is ready too. I still dream about playing Ultimate all of the time, and love being active in the community. And absolutely, the logistics of having children and being engaged in sport is a burden that cannot be ignored. Having a supportive partner and social network is key.
Annie: Challenging! The biggest thing for me was exhaustion. I had a baby who just never slept well. I played a full tour season (all six tours plus trainings) without ever getting three hours sleep in a row. It took me a fair while to get back to my previous form. I made it back on to SMOG 1 by MT3, so about 5 months, and would say I was at full fitness by Euros which was 11 months. It's such a gradual process it's hard to tell though.
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Annie (left), baby James (middle) and husband Harry (right) all kitted out
PC: Clare Glasspool |
What advice would you have for a young Ultimate player who has just found out they are pregnant?
Alia: I would say that age is not the factor that can determine what dice you are thrown. It is important to listen to your body, seek advice from medical professionals, and engage with peer groups for support. No two pregnancies are the same. In addition to the above, staying as active as you can while pregnant really does pay off post-birth! It doesn't have to be Ultimate, and there are an increasing number of prenatal classes that one can attend to keep fit and get one’s body ready for what’s ahead. 🙂
Annie: It's absolutely possible to be a Mum and an Ultimate player. Find yourself a good supportive mums fitness group where everyone's been through what your going through - it makes such a difference. Make sure that you talk to your teammates about what you're going through too - they can't be expected to know what it's like, but in my experience will do everything they can if you let them know what's helpful.
Nic: Everything Alia and Annie has said above, talk to your teammates. Get it out there. I find it difficult to take my daughter to tournaments because I would need support on ‘looking after’ her whilst I was on the pitch, I don’t want to be a burden on people and ask them to have her and so I have only taken her to three tournaments in my 3 years of playing. It also reduces how many tournaments I play/training I go to. When actually, looking at it retrospectively, there has been a fair amount of people offer to have her. I have even had new people ask me when I am next bringing her to a tournament, there are some lovely people out there! If you tell people about everything they become a lot more open and willing.
How did sport/not being able to play sport influence your mental health? Did you experience postpartum depression?
Annie: I was fortunate enough not to. I joined a really great mums' running group when James was 8 weeks so got back into exercise very quickly, and played a couple of tournaments at that stage too. It was probably too early to be back in Ultimate in hindsight as I was just unbelievably exhausted, but it definitely helped my mental health. Plus the coaching gave me something less physical but still Ultimate related to really invest in.
Alia: My younger brother died when his motorbike was hit on 30 April 2017. I was only in the early stages of pregnancy, but am grateful that I had seen him in the US just a week earlier for my parents’ 40th wedding anniversary. I was born and raised in the US, but my family hails from Pakistan. Talking about mental health is not something that is something I was raised with culturally. I am pleased to see how young people are far more open about the fact that we should all feel equally open to talk about a sore elbow as we should a depressed mood. I am grateful to say that the resilience training we had received during GB Women's training, particularly in 2007-2008 helped me enormously in managing this grief. This along with seeing how my superhero of a Mother handled this tragedy helped further strengthen my self-love and love of those in my life. I have become far more open with sharing strong emotions with my friends and family, and this habit has helped me greatly, particularly as raising children can be extremely emotionally tiring. I have learned how to be better at asking for help when I have needed it, as even though I did not experience postpartum depression, I did get shingles end of last year, which is stress induced.
Nic: I never suffered from postpartum depression. However, I do suffer from depression. After I finished university I had a manic episode, it was an incredibly difficult and scary time of my life but I found that playing Ultimate and meeting new people really helped me get through it. Since then, I have had a few wobbles but overall, I can honestly say the two years have been the most positive I have ever felt.
What are good things a captain/coach can do to accommodate new/expecting mothers?
Annie: Talk to them!!! I don't expect captains to know what it's like to be a Ultimate parent, particularly as it's so different from Mum to Mum, and kid to kid, but just ask. Simple questions like "what would make this training/ tournament more manageable for you Annie?" are so important.
Alia: Being a captain is a challenging role. Teams should aspire to have a non-playing coach to help alleviate the pressure of leading on pitch and off. But that is of course a luxury that not all teams have at present. As a captain, asking for feedback after tournaments, and having a channel through which teammates can share thoughts/concerns/feedback throughout the season is always really helpful. Having a person who is designated for this role to filter back thoughts and comments to the captain can help ensure that the sports “team” can perform to the intended targets, but also that the sports “club” can be resilient and inclusive. And yes, Annie is right on target: talk to your captains and leadership to help manage expectations and address any issues. There is now more of an awareness of the value gender and diversity equity in our sport. It is never a nice feeling to feel like the “other” on a team. Clubs that have open communication channels where teammates can share any perceptions of discrimination or other issues that can take away from the club will be stronger for it.
What are some good things teammates can do to accommodate new/expecting mothers?
Alia: It’s great for teammates to look out for each other. It’s important that everyone take care of their own needs first, and then see what capacity they have to help ensure that their teammates can be at their best as well. Even just listening and giving high-fives to teammates for the awesome stuff they are doing on and off pitch is always great. Nobody likes to be singled out as being different on a team, so balancing between giving a boost to your teammates and not making them feel like they are different because of their status as a mother etc is a tricky one, but worth considering. I will never forget Cassie Seaborn coming to Iceni training with her first child in a pram. She would mention that she got 3 hours sleep, and then focus more intensely than anyone else during the drills, getting D’s and being a total inspiration to us all. That is the life of a parent, and I have found that my work ethic has become far more focused as well. Turning up to anything in life is an active choice when you’re a parent, and that is worth acknowledging.
Nic: If you feel up to it, just offer support. If they feel up to it then offer to look after the child whilst you’re playing, being supportive and giving you high fives so you know you haven’t asked too much of them.
Annie: My SMOG teammates have been incredibly supportive. Things that have made a real difference include pushing the pram to keep James settled so I can play at trainings & tournaments, playing with him and reading stories once he was bigger, cutting me some slack with punctuality, organising socials that we can participate in eg. eating out before bedtime rather than late, or booking baby-friendly Airbnbs for the team. The other massive thing for teammates to remember is that my job never stops... them looking after James for five minutes between games, is awesome too, and giving me 5mins to sit down is appreciated just as much as getting me 5 mins of pitch time!
Nic: I like that idea of child friendly Airbnb’s, that’s so incredible of them! It would definitely be a huge help and mean a lot in them doing so.
Annie: Yeah, the time we had a whole team Airbnb was amazing. It was the first time I was able to socialise as well as play. We had three floors, and I was able to put James to bed on the top floor, and play games and eat with the team downstairs. Obviously it’s not often an option, but when it is it's a real treat!
Is there any aspect of Ultimate culture you wish you could change, to make it more accommodating for mothers?
Nic: I think it changes progressively, depending on maybe the age of your team/how well you know them? For me anyway, I wouldn’t feel comfortable or feel like it was fair to ask my teammates to help me out like that. Just being open-minded would be enough for me, and welcoming. For example, Iceni specifically appealed to mothers this year during their trial period. I find that really inspirational.
Alia: Totally agree with you Nicola, it’s awesome that clubs like Iceni are exploring ways they can help support the return of women into Ultimate after starting a family. I am hopeful that more and more avenues will open up which will allow for Ultimate players to step back into the sport when they are ready. I did a short-term project with the UKU exploring the question of why do people stop playing Ultimate? There were some themes that emerged. People either stopped playing Ultimate because they didn’t feel that they could fit into a new team culture in a new city, or because a new job demanded more time than a club schedule would allow. Another key theme was that many people stopped playing Ultimate after having children, and this particularly impacted women's abilities to return to the sport. Together with the UKU, we developed a project which would allow players of all abilities to play Ultimate in a 3 or 4 aside format. UKU is still exploring means by which to make launching this project a possibility, and it could be a great way to help those wanting to get back into the sport. Anyone wanting to volunteer time to help them launch such projects would be appreciated I’m sure!
Annie: Training at venues with no loos! This is awful on so many levels... nappy changing, water refills, bladder control.
Nic: I agree with Annie, I have never thought of that before but if the facilities don’t have basics such as that it would create a whole other barrier!
Alia: Yes! Inadequate facilities would be a total barrier to re-entry.
Hazard: Does that also include tournaments with loos a long way from the pitch? (e.g. I've heard complaints regarding this for the Durham venue)?
Annie: Yep definitely! Though I'll forgive this at Durham, because I get to sleep in my own bed 😄
Do you find Uni/Club cultures differ in their approach to mothers? Is being involved with one more difficult than the other?
Annie: To be honest I've only had overwhelmingly positive experiences at both uni and club level. Team Durham being happy for me to coach with a baby in a sling or toddler in a buggy has been amazing, but the opportunity to play Worlds alongside my husband and with my baby in tow is pretty hard to beat!
Nic: I don’t believe one is more difficult than the other. I have had positive experiences from both University and Club Ultimate however, I have also experienced that some players have found it difficult having a child around. I think it is dependent on what people are comfortable with and not necessarily age group, but it has generally been positive.
Alia: It's awesome to see our sport reaching a full cycle where there are players whose children are now playing the sport at the school level and beyond. I think that once we further mature as a community in this way, it will help demystify the "mother who plays Ultimate." The answer is, there is no one mould that fits all.
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Nic (top right) with her Div. 2 winning Huddersfield side
PC: Tanya Fozzard |
What Ultimate highlight are you most looking forward to seeing your child achieve? Or what have they already done?
Annie: I was hoping to have cute newborn photos of my kids snoozing in discs, but born at 8lb13 and 8lb10 they were both too big for that 😂
Nic: I got Sophie her first Eurostar disc last year, I brought it home from Paganello and whenever we go to the park she always brings it a long with her, and she took it to school for ‘Show and Tell’. She’s very enthusiastic about it, so for as long as I play it she’ll have it in her life.
Annie: James' favourite activity at the minute is grabbing a disc and shouting "shall we throw Mummy?" - it's always my fault when it hits the floor too. Doesn’t matter if he throws 180 the wrong direction, he still says "silly Mummy didn't catch"
Alia: I never thought to introduce a disc to my first child till she was a bit older, but we went to visit Fran Scarampi who had moved to Dorking. We went on a lovely walk with Toby the Puppy who was chasing after hucks that she was putting up for him. My daughter wanted to throw the disc for Toby to catch, and that was the first time she threw a disc. I was amazed to see that a 3 year old was able to throw a decent length disc. She had been throwing and kicking balls from an early age, as I had as a child, but it never crossed my mind that young children could experience the pure joy of throwing from such a young age. My son also likes walking around with my Iceni disc in hand as he has seen his big sister do it. To him, it is as natural as wanting to have a ball. Chesca Tyler was telling me that there are J-Stars that one can order. These are slightly smaller discs (145g) that are great for kids. I will be ordering some soon!
Are there any lessons you learnt from Ultimate which you think have changed the way you raise your children?
Annie: Ooh good question! I think my perception of good sportsmanship is more clearly defined since giving SOTG thought, so I hope the standards of behaviour that I expect of my kids in competitive situations will reflect that
Nic: Hm, I find that quite a difficult question if I’m being honest but, I do agree with Annie. SOTG and standards in behaviour is something I find really interesting with Ultimate, in addition to there being a huge variety in people and ethnicities. It has changed my personality for the better.
Alia: Raising a family is challenging, no matter what the context. But having an Ultimate community to draw from has been invaluable for me so far. The number of parents keeps on growing, and the values we look to share encompasses rule #1 of the sport: Spirit of the game and having a mutual respect for one another. That is actually an incredibly tough rule to adhere to off pitch, particularly when it comes to raising a family. But it is so ingrained in us as players that the value of this concept inevitably impacts parental styles as well. That said, please don’t remind me that I said this if any of my children decide to wake me up before 6am tomorrow. 🙂 (Just saw that Annie & Nicola also mentioned SOTG! What an amazing sport we have!)
Thank you all! Are there any final words you have for anyone reading?
Nic: A supportive teammate/friend is the best thing you could ask for. My friends and the wider Ultimate community have been incredibly supportive and more people continue to offer to help. And for that, I’m really grateful! Thanks for letting us talk about it, it has been a lot of fun.
Annie: My final thoughts are just what an incredible community the Ultimate community is. It’s been hugely supportive and facilitated my playing and coaching as a Mum to a level I never thought would be possible - thanks guys!
Alia: Really wonderful that you have provided a space for this conversation! Totally agree that the community is wonderful to draw from. But as many of us have competitive natures, it can be frustrating when the post pregnancy dream isn't as one had envisaged. Mine was water birth, and back to playing Ultimate within 3 months. Instead, I had an emergency c-section and a limited return to the sport so far. I am happy to share that I am still working on getting back to Ultimate, but that dream might not be a reality unless I opt for surgery for my diastasis recti (split abs). I am focusing my energy on helping develop the sport further, but still would love to get back out and playing! Coaching is a highly rewarding channel that I am hoping to further invest my energy. 🙂
Further resources:
UK Ultimate Parents group
Worldwide Ultimate Mother’s group
Editors Note:
We received an interesting comment from reddit user Tsarena on r/ultimate, which we thought contributed well to the themes of this article and which we received their consent to include here
Tsarena:
As the mother of an 8 month old, I think this is an interesting topic. I wish these women had shared more specific examples of things they encountered while playing pregnant/with an infant on the sideline. I was also curious if there was a different experience playing on a mixed team vs. a women's team. My husband and I play on the same mixed team and it is a different experience when you have two parents.
Personally, I continued to practice with my mixed team until I physically couldn't ~ 5 months. I chose not to play competitively during the pregnancy because I have been run into too many times and considered the risk too high. I still went to tournaments even though I wasn't playing, to support my husband and stay connected to the team. After the baby was born, I started practicing at a much reduced level around 2 months postpartum, and seriously at around 6 months. So far, I have taken my baby to a 1 day women's tournament, a 2 day mixed tournament, and multiple practices.
At least where I play, there are lots of families and parents of young children. Mine was not the only stroller and I have not been the only mother to nurse on the sideline. My team has been very supportive, and I never have to worry about my child on the sideline. There is always someone interested in holding her, rocking her to sleep, subing for me if I need to nurse, helping to carry our giant pile of stuff from one sideline to the next, etc. Having the support of the team really makes playing possible. Sometimes, I don't even hold my child for an entire half, because she is playing with other team members.
Our team is 'beer bracket' club lvl, and I imagine it might be a different experience playing at a higher level. It does take time to get back physically and I could see more competitive club teams not tolerating a player who isn't able to play at the highest level. However, in my experience, postpartum it has been more of an endurance issue than speed or throws, so having the option to sub out every point keeps the level of play high.
Things I have to consider when I bring my baby to the fields:
What is the bad weather plan. Is this a tent? Car? Hotel? Covered Stroller?
Know your child - will they take a nap at the field? if not, when do you need to leave to make sure they nap?
Food. When do you nurse? Do you bring a bottle? How do you heat said bottle?
How are baby duties being split between my husband and myself?
